---- Since my specialty is England, I will provide, in due time, refs. for Griceans in the different shires. I should start with Huntingdonshire, or Rutland, I'm not sure.
Grice recalls how briliant one of his mates at Oxford was as an undergraduate. "I don't recall his name; so I shall call him "Shropshire", since he did have the name of a county."
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Shropshire, also known for some reason as Salop, a more satisfyingly ancient sound.
ReplyDeleteYou are so right, Mr. Kennedy!
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I used to use all the Latin names for them, till I read (you won't like this) Nancy Mitford, "U and non-U", and she suggests it may be non-U:
But there you have
Salop
Hants
Oxon
Cantab
my favourite. I used to have a lover in Shrewsbury, indeed, I still do! Lovely city! One of my favourite shires in the whole world! Most important people are from Salop. Wodehouse wrote a lot about Salop.
--- My favourite book EVER -- and I'm on record on that, as I belong to the A. E. Housman Society -- which meets in Worcestershire, for his birthday -- is "A Shropshire Lad".
I once did a review called "Mad about the Boy", and made good use of Noel Coward,
I know that quite sincerely
Housman really
wrote "A Shropshire Lad" about the boy.
--- In fact he didn't. He only "blue-remembered" the hills, and his associations with Shropshire are minimal.
--- Shrophsire is mainly Welsh: Owen, the Great War poet, was from Owestry, which is Welsh to the backbone.
Now, N.E.A. thinks that Shropshire is "Hampshire", the Oxford philosopher, but I doubt it. Hants. is a good name. When Rowse was asked to write a second part to his "Tudor Cornwall" he suggested "Stuart Hamsphire" but declined.
Each shire has a coat of arms, etc. There is no Uni of Salop, thank God. So they all had to go to Oxon and study under Grice, or _by_ Grice because he could be heavy set. Etc.
I've never come close to a circle where the U and non-U thing is a live concern, but it just seems awful, a hangover from the business of where to seat a late-arriving Duchess...
ReplyDeleteI have an amusing link somewhere to Emperor of Mexico, Maximiliano, and his instructions for mealtimes to the staff...
"I've never come close to a circle where the U and non-U thing is a live concern,"
ReplyDelete-- for this is The Grice _Square_. :)
"but it just seems awful,"
Oddly, that reminds me of our dear George III, when visiting St. Paul's Cathedral. "An awful building". Wren comments, "His majesty meant 'awesome'".
"a hangover from the business of where to seat a late-arriving Duchess..."
Well, yes, and indeed HER sister wrote one of the funniest books I've ever _seen_ (never mind read), "Counting your Chicken". She is the Duchess of Devonshire, firmly planted in Derbys, of course.
---
But no, it can be fun:
All of Nancy's points are valid. Never mind the U vs. non-U, because that can vary, she accepts (Waugh, who posted his letters from W1 even though he was living in NW1 knew and commented, "The English Aristocracy, as I never knew it""). -- repr. in Noblesse oblige.
--- For Nancy, who is VERY down to earth (good old soil of England, in Wiltshire): it's all about Grice:
"We went down to Haddon Hall to see Percy"
"Surely, 'hall' is otiose there. "Went down to Haddon is the thing to say -- we don't need to be reminded what type of English perpendicular we'll find there".
--- I belong to a film circle, and recently we saw "Love in a cold climate", the BBC serial (alas for the BBC, but lovely production otherwise), with Alan Bates and a few. It's all about U and non-U and had me revising the code, as supplied by Nancy.
She says that an arisotcrat is very LIKELY to use non-U, when 'echoing' his servants. And right she is, _too_.
She comments on wireless versus radio, house versus home, and missus versus wife. All very fun.
English was almost a furrin lingo to her, since her soul was in _France_: she married one and would only engage in sex with Frenchies, etc.
---
One of the characters in "Love in a cold climate" is modeled on her. The serial encompasses two of her books: Pursuit of love AND love in a cold climate.
The Montdore lady IS a gem.
I wrote about her when advertising for the film circle. Etc.
Well, provide the link! About the Massimiliano. Messico. Lovely!
ReplyDelete--- But back to Nancy:
I can never say "St. John's College" where Grice taught, after reading _her_.
She says "college" is totally non-U. "Surely there's nothing else in Oxford _but_ colleges, so why bother?"
Etc.
--- The problem with dropping "college" at "St. John's" is that we may not, but I WILL, got the whole hog and say that
ReplyDeleteSir Stuart was of New.
-- of course it's S. N. Hampshire.
ReplyDelete--------- But this thing it's inverted snobbery.
Grice only went, naturally, by
H. P. Grice.
(e.g. His Mind 1941 article, his 1961 Aristotelian Society). It would have been RIDICULOUS that he would have thought elsehow.
But in America, and in parts of England, people WERE using their "Christian" names: notably Lord Russell, who went by "Betrand".
I can't cope with that and he'll always be dear "B. A. W." to me (Bertrand Arthur William, if you must).
I made a good point in all my writings, etc., to use only initials.
None of that "Christopher Peacocke" nonsense: It's C. A. B. Peacocke.
-- Sometimes I had to dig well, to find the second name.
This went to all of my lovers: I never used Christian (or other names): it's J. P., and R. S. W., and O. N., and R. S., and T. P. (This amused Geary, for he thought it symbolises toilet paper, too, so one has to be careful).
H. P. actually stands for 'saucy' implicature, alla Donal McEvoy, so one has to be careful there, too.
------- But then he dropped the P, and by 1975, when cajoled to publish, he did
Logic and Conversation
which appeared, in the Cole/Morgan as
by "H. Paul Grice".
By the time he died, he was using "Paul Grice" alright.
But the (c) for WoW is (c) Herbert Paul Grice, -- which is back to the future, I expect.
Etc.
--- The "Salop" thing, as coming from Nancy Miford, requires some qualifications, if you must (as you mustn't!)
ReplyDeleteI think she says it's bad (manners) to say
"I went to Salop".
pronounced /salop/.
She thinks, "Shropshire" sounds better.
I think she ALSO says,
The Vicarage,
Milton,
Salop.
--- is possibly OKAY, but perhaps not. I do find that "Shropshire" is too long for an envelope, do I'd go with "Salop".
Mind, in California they go even worse: they want the thing to go by "CA" rather than "Calif." Etc.
-- But Jason is of course right about the etymology of the Ancients:
ReplyDelete"SALOP" is all about the Roman occupation: the baths, etc.
"Shrop" _means_ Salop, originally.
--- The "SaLop" has some magic to it, in that Shropshire does not feature an "L", so it HAS to be a Roman thing. A child will enjoy that. A postman less.
--- (or "Some" postman less).
Ditto, the N in "Hants". I cannot see how you can grow an "N" out of the very Anglo-Saxon, "home-p-shire". But there you go.
----- Other abbreviations are still more ridiculous, which meant of course, risus, -- amusing.
From an online source at:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=185257%3bguest=13384993
"Being pedantic, I'd also point out that 'Salop' no longer exists as a county- it's 'Shropshire'. 'Salop' was the name of the county between 1974-1978 from memory, tho' Wisden still refers to the county cricket team as 'Salop' (and Oxfordshire as 'Oxon'), but with no basis in anything other than tradition. The name change to the county came when a Col. Kenyon pointed out (shortly after the UK joined the EEC) that in French, 'une salope' was the word for a whore."
From same source:
ReplyDelete"The only part of "Salop." I'm not entirely sure about - is whether it does need that full-stop or not."
I think it does. But then it may not.
Surely you are not going not to spare a 'dot' when writing an envelope.
There's reanalysis to consider.
ReplyDeleteSalop ---> "Salopian"
Yet, as comment in source above notes:
"No one in the county will refer to it (the County) as anything other than Shropshire. But they are still proud Salopians."
Jason:
ReplyDelete"I've never come close to a circle where the U and non-U thing is a live concern."
Mind, it's not just, or only, or U vs. non-U at all necessarily: as this link above notes:
"Believe me, hereabouts (in Salopshire LOLOL) people have got divorced over this Salop vs Shropshire argument!"