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Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Grice: Higher Orders

-------- by J. L. Speranza
----------- for the Grice Club

---- I WOULD LIKE IN THIS POST TO FOCUS ON L. J. KRAMER's (and many others') use of 'metalinguistic'. In a number of comments and post, Kramer, aptly, refers to 'metalinguistic'. I too have used the adjective, and so has Grice. Grice refers to the

--- object-language

and the

-- meta-language

(Both terms coined by Russell, the OED has it).

Grice is concerned about their relation, and instituted a Principle to restrict the use of both: "Bootstrap", he called it: You will have, eventually, to pull up by your own bootstraps. It goes. In terms of OL and ML it goes: Do not enrich the ML unnecessarily so. For, at the end of the morning (recall his soul was with the Saturday mornings), all that you said in the ML you should be able to reformulate in the OL.


-----


Now, I will refer to Kramer's examples below. But I would think that one of the first uses of this concerns Grice's "Indicative Conditionals" lecture. Very few authors care (if that's the word) to quote from stuff OTHER than the "Logic and Conversation" lecture, but this was a unit, and WoW:iv belongs in there.

He is considering elections. He did not really care for the candidates, and as Chapman notes (from archival material), Grice kept crossing names -- and updating candidates:

Heath
Wilson
Nabarro
Thorpe

-----

Let us abbreviate these candidates as:

Heath -- a
Wilson -- b
Nabarro -- c
Thorpe -- d

Grice is concerned what in the literature (even Chapman, who teaches lit. at Liverpool wrote a riposte to Horn on this) has been called, apres Ducrot, "meta-linguistic" negation. The charm of the Grice context is that it shows his concern for the issue, first, in terms of the slighlty more complex (if syntax alone guides us), if less basic, then, "or".

A: p v q

-- i.e. Either Wilson or Heath will win the election.

I.e.

"Either Wilson will win the election or Heath will win the election"

---

Grice wants to have a "B" co-conversationalist going, perhaps illogically:

B: "That's not so: there's Nabarro!"

---- This is illogical:

The negation of

(p v q)

is

- (p v q)

and Nabarro has nothing to do with it.

So, Grice wants to say, what B is NEGATING is not "p v q" but the 'co-operative' quality of 'p v q', i.e. its truth-value. Would it be better to have said,

"That's false: there's Nabarro!"

-- The example is discussed by Horn in Hist. Neg., referring to the locus classicus in Grice, so let's be reminded of it:

--- I BELIEVE that Horn was not able to quote from the WoW: reprint because, hey, he published his Hist. Neg. in 1989, and WoW ALSO came out in WoW. So he must have unburied his notes on the manuscript, which makes him quite an archaeologist!

(Gazdar, for example, refuses to quote Grice on that, noting, "There are so many typos in the transcript that I cannot quote Grice for something he certainly does not desire to be quoted like that" -- or words).

In any case, Gazdar is concerned with very convoluted propositional-logic formula, unlike Horn who is making a general point, so there.

What Grice wrote in his handwritten notes that were later typed was:

"Suppose you say," Grice says,

i. Wilson or Heath will be the next Prime Minister.

"I can disagree with you in one of two ways."

"First, I can say, ii."

ii. That's not so: it won't be either: it will be Thorpe.

Grice comments:

"Here I am contradicting your
statement, and I shall call this
a case of 'contradictory disagreement'"

----

"But, second, I can say,

iii. I disagree, it will be either Wilson or Thorpe.

Grice comments,

"Here, I am NOT now contradicting what
you say. I am certainly NOT denying [emphasis Grice's.] that
Wilson will be Prime Minister. It is, rather,
that I wish NOT to assert what you have
asserted, but, instead, to substitute a
different statement which I regard as
preferable under-the-circumstances. I
shall call this 'substitutive disagreement'".
(WoW:64).

The key here seems to be:

"It is rather that I wish not
to assert what you have asserted,"

-- which may turn out to be true, or which may be regarded as 'true'.

"but instead to substitute
a different statement which I
regard as preferable".

Those cases I would, but won't, call "meta-linguistic" necessarily.

So it's here where I would draw back to the OL/ML distinction.

The idea that ML and OL are of a different "order" is a good one: both are, in the case of Grice, "English": English as the language to speak about English.

When logicians speak of "first-order predicate-calculus" as Grice does in "Reply to Richards", "with identity," he adds, to please the formaslist in his readership, he is on spot.

There is this idea of an 'order', first possibly used by Tarski, or the inventor of proto-thetic (another Pole), I forget.

Talk of 'order' commits us to say that it's going to be the same calculus. We are going to have the first-order predicate-calculus applied on itself. Surely there will be a change in the domain (or universe of discourse) of the variables. Now things like "p" or "q", or "p v q" -- vide Lakoff, "On minding your ps and qs" -- can come under the scope of things.

So we may need a 'formal' way to say:

"p v q" is NOT preferable under the circumstances.

We don't need to say

"p v q" is FALSE. Because we can say that, more or less, with the same assertoric force, by embedding the "p v q" within the scope of ' - ':

"-(p v q)".

But 'preferable' is just a broader item. "True" is preferred to 'false', but 'informative enough' is preferred to 'not enough informative', and so on -- for each of the four categories -- and attending maxims.

When it comes to lexemes this will apply as well:

JASON (in Guatemala): Llueve ("It rains")
Guatemalan: Does not! This is NOT rain.

--- Here we should be reminded of Jason Kennedy's actual wording on this:

He writes in "Comments" "Grice on 'illogicalities', this Blog:

Here in Guatemala, the rainy season featured continual assertions by the local population, during what was to me heavy rain, that "This is not rain" or "This is nothing" ... The point being, that what I had previously considered heavy rain etc, was going to be recalibrated and afterwards, "I would change my mind" or "Never think of rain in the same way again" etc.

---- Incidentally I once was browsing the OED and find the expression, "The Irish Storm" for which perhaps at another time.

---

So:

A: It's raining (uttered by J. Kennedy in Guatemala).
Guatemalan: It's not!

--- Strictly, what B should say, I submit is:

"I have a conversational move which may be viewed by me as more preferable to make in the circumstances: to wit: "You call "this" rain?""

----

In the case of the Election:

A: Wilson will be the next Prime Minister or Heath will be Prime Minister.
B: I have a move to make in the circumstances which _I_ regard as preferable: Wilson will be the prime Minister or Thorpe will be the Prime Minister.

(-- One may have to analyse that in terms of the logic of probabilities, too).

Grice speaks of 'dreary' contexts at this stage:

"For either of us to be happily said
to be RIGHT, it is (I think) a necessary
condition that we should have an initial
list of mutually exclusive and genuine
sarters. If I had said,"

--- "It will be either Wilson or Gerald Nabarro"

"this would be (by exploitation) a way
of saying that it will be Wilson."

"Now if it turns out to be Heath you
have won (have been shown to be
right what you said has been
confirmed)."

On the other hand,

"If it turs out to be Thorpe,
I have won."

"But suppose,"

he adds,

"drearily, it turns out to be
Wilson."

In such a case,

"Certainly neither of us is right
as against the other; and if it
was perfectly obvious to one and
all that Wilson was a likely
candidate, though the same
could NOT be said of the others,
there would, I think, be some
RELUCTANCE to say that either
of us had been shown to be right."

i.e.

"that what either of us had SAID
had been confirmed (though
of course there would be NO
INCLINATION at all to say
that we were wrong)."

---

Chapman comments, as he becomes under contract with Macmillan to become a Palgrave author, of her time as archival materialist:

"Papers covered in Grice's cramped
hand in faint pencil, characteristic
of his work from Oxford, were annotated
and added to bey notes in ball-point
made years later in Berkeley."

--- Ah for the faint pencil.

"Ideas generally associated exclusively
with his late work, such as those
relating to rationality and to finality,
are explored in notes dating back to
the 1960s."

--- If that's not the Longitude of Grice I don't know what is.

---

Finally, to end this passage, Champan has:

"Work often remained in
manuscript from for SO LONG [emphashis mine.
But cfr. Averroes on Aristotle. JLS] that it
needed to be updated as the years went by."

--- As time goes by, more generally.

"In the original version of [WoW:iv], Grice
uses the example".

Here Chapman refers to material, with Grice having:

'Either Wilson or MacMillan will be P.M.'

---

"At a later time," Chapman adds,

'MacMillan'

"has been crossed out and 'Heath' written
over the top in a different coloured ink." (p. 8)

----

So who says Ordinary Linguistic Philosophy is not politically oriented?

13 comments:

  1. WoW!

    I don't know how Grice's ML relates to my idiolectal usage.

    Good Morning

    carries at least the following messages:

    1. I speak (at least) English

    2. I believe there is a reasonable likelihood that you understand "Good Morning."

    3. I believe that you regard our personal relationship as making my wish for your morning of interest to you.

    4. I regard our personal relationship as making your knowing my wish for your morning worth my trouble to express.

    5. I wish you a good morning.

    6. I do not wish you a bad rest of your day (or other time period).

    And, I suppose, others. Of these, it seems to me that only 5 and 6 are linguistic messages as compared to what I call "metalinguistic" ones. Sentence 5 is semantically explicit. Sentence 6 is a conventional implicature, if I am learning anything from JL. But what are the rest? Are they anything-linguistic at all?

    Whenever you ask me a question, what does the fact of my answering it tell you about my view of our social relationship? I could completely ignore you? And, on the theory that all non-random choices carry information, how are we to describe the information carried by my choosing to answer? Or by the calibration of my answer along the solicitousness continuum that runs from "Gee, I wish I could tell you, but I cannot articulate my reason" right through silence and all the way to my pulling out my sword and cutting off your head for your insolence?

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  2. If I may play Hermione Gingold to your Maurice Chevalier (or vice versa, depending on whose memory is accurate), I recall suggesting "And Queen Anne is alive" as an operator that would make any assertion false. I cannot find the reference in the search thingy though. But, then I might well have suggested "And Queen Anne is dead" as an operator that leaves the truth value of the first assertion unchanged. But I don't recall doing that. Can you find the comment?

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  3. You are right! in your Hermione Gingold persona. What a woman. I think I have the hard-cover book of this red-haired. Find it hilarious. Presented it to my mother as a gift and she didn't! -- Ah well! I think I love Hermione Gingold. I think there is ANOTHER Hermione? (The one that played Mary Poppins's "employer". Should find out).

    -- Yes, I think you are right:

    You did mention: Queen Anne is alive. Sorry about that. Indeed, "Queen Anne is dead" is so obvious that it wouldn't merit a cataloguing when it comes to the four possible monadic truth-functors. Will see if I can retrieve your comment and paste it here.

    ---- As for "good morning", I would think "I wish ..." is CONVERSATIONAL. You shouldn't say you've learnd conventional implicatum from me, because I avoid them like the rats, conventional implicatures. Horn wrote, "perhaps the obituary of conventional implicature has been premature" in the preface to his fascimile-identical, "History of Negation". Potts has tried to revive it, but he runs for charity! --.

    -- Good morning.

    Indeed, the object linguistic I would represent as the first claim possible that makes sense for first order predicate calculus, at least in this thread. But more in next comment, right now.

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  4. --

    So,

    "Good morning"

    -- Logical form.

    I'm trying to stick to the obit. of Strawson ("Grice would tell me, "if you cannot put it in symbols it's not worth saying" -- for Strawson's rude reply read Time Online! :)) It's just the transpostion of Grice's clever, if apocryphalism).

    ---

    "Good morning".

    Logical form?

    When I was some sort of student-teaching back at my alma mater (in my birthplace) I recall I had to submit questionnaires, to my supervisor, regarding what I wanted to elicit from students. I was teaching ontology, or something -- it was sixth form -- so the first sentence was:

    "John is good".

    Logical form?

    I ungraded all students who supplied:

    "Fa" -- i.e. "a" (John) has property F (be good). "Good" is NOT a property.

    So I propose

    "Clever morning".

    "morning is clever"

    Surely this is different from WISHING You a clever morning, but let there be.

    Or else we can consider

    I WISH you a good morning as a logical form, where we describe 'a good morning' as a desideratum, on the part of "a" to "b", and call it "d", where "c", to order things, is the time.

    "a" wishes "b" at time "c", "d".

    ----

    In this context, the verb (missing in Good morning) is all important.

    Perhaps you can think of a simpler example.

    "Spots runs"?

    Spots runs -- or as I prefer

    The cat is on the mat, or sat in the mat. This has the advantage that it avoids _naming_ the cat as you name the dog, "Spots" (I can imagine a kindergartener observe: "Strictly it's spots run -- because surely you called him Spots by the existence of a multiple quantifier, there, right?").

    The cat is on the mat.

    Logical form

    (ix)Cx & Mx.

    -- THAT is the OL, or object language.

    Everything else whould be implicated.

    e.g.

    "She's NOT lost".

    Now suppose there are TWO cats on the mat"

    A: "The cat is on the mat".
    B: "That's not true: the catS _are_ on the mat".

    I would be ready to say that B's riposte resembles:

    Interviewer: How old are you?
    Joan Rivers: 50.
    Interviewer: That's false!

    --- In truth, Joan Rivers _is_ fifty, but perhaps her answer is not as informative as the interviewer would have wished it to be. If age is tricky,

    Interviewer (for Social Security Pension bonus): How many children have you got?
    Person: 15.

    If the person happens to have 21 children, what the Person does say _is_ true. So, those aspects, like "And what I say is informative, and what I say is true, and what I say is relevant, and, last but not least, what I say is clear" are merely IMPLICATED, and thus NOT part of the logical form, which reflects the TRUTH-CONDITIONS, i.e. the conditions that make the denotatum of the logical form _true_.

    One cat on the mat makes "The cat is on the mat" true. There may be a problem with the "the", but then, people do mention, "The three stooges" when, strictly, it's "Three Stooges". "The" is not used JUST for uniqueness.

    The idea of the (ix), or iota operator, that we need (or then we do not) to reflect the 'the' is a complex one, but more in next comment, right now.

    "The cat is on the ma

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  5. "The cat is on the mat".

    In formula:

    (ix)Cx & Mx.

    But (ix) that Grice cites explicitly in WoW:ii, first page, is REDUNDANT.

    I.e. it is NOT a primitive operator. It has to be defined. And it can be defined, Grice holds, by just using (Ex), i.e. some (or at least one), plus 'identity' ('=') which can ALSO be defined in terms of Leibniz's Law.

    To say that the cat is "the" cat, we are merely saying that

    There is an x.
    Such that
    IF there is another y
    such that
    y is indescernible with x,
    y is identical with x.

    --- In the case of the three stooges, this gets slightly more complicated. Some people drop "the" when it's more than one. Quine, for example,

    "Twelve apostles were gathered around Jesus in the Last Supper". (Methods of Logic). Quine suggests that the logical form of this is

    (12x)Ax & Gx

    -- where (12x) is a numerical quantifier for "12" (no more, no less). But there are further problems here, with the plural tense.

    Grice in Vacuous Names credits George Boolos, whom he had met at Harvard, and it's only Boolos, of all the logicians I know (not a whole lot -- and I thank R. Helzermann for this), the one who has taken seriously into account the logical form of the plural tense.

    ----

    So once we are more or less certain as to what is the truth-condition that makes a truth-evaluable move (as opposed to "Good morning!") true we can further consider that some of the implicata are metalinguistic.

    Some are not, I would think:

    "The flag of Japan is red". Implicates "Just red". But "And white" is not really "metalinguitic". It becomes a metalinguistic comment as challenged by a sort of unGricean speaker, as it were -- but Grice can be loose in uses, too:

    "The Flag of Japan is red"
    "That's not so!" (ILLOGICAL: It IS so. It happens to be white, also). So the 'not' is METALINGUISTIC, I hold, because it is NEGATING, not, "The flag of Japan is red" but negating, rather that the Utterer B finds the conversational move by A "preferable in the circumstances". But there are ways of correcting people. The use of 'not', when metalinguistic, should, I submit, be properly or at least minimally indicated as such.

    ---

    "She sucks".
    "She doesn't suck, Tommy. If you find her appalling, you should say so".

    ----

    "That's a coup de grace!" (where A mispronounces 'grace' with an hypercorrected droppage of 's' -- kupdegra: -- As it happens, the 's' SHOULD be pronounced here. So B goes, wrongly:

    "That's NOT a coup de gra:, it's a coup de gra:S".

    Those corrections are best regarded as 'metalinguistic'. It _was_ a coup de grace alright, however mispronounced.

    ---- One cannot be so _picky_! Or a stickler for the correctest usage! Especially in casual conversation.

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  6. Another specimen that has been identified as falling in this are is V/T pronouns, in say, French.

    Actually, I was reminded the other day that a friend of ours challenged someone as:

    "Please have a seat, granny"

    with "I'm NOT your granny, you bastard!"

    --- With the "tu" and 'vous' there are similar, subtler, implicata:

    "Tu es belle"
    A: that's not true. You should show some respect and address to me as "vous"

    Tu es belle.
    Vous etes belle.

    seem to be truth-functional equivalent. Here 'belle' is a problem in being in the eye of the utterer. But we can suppose then

    Tu es francaise.
    Vous etes francaise.

    --- Now, a Parisian old lady (in Napeoleonic times, not today) may want to say:

    "Ca ce n'est pais vrai!"

    "That's not true! I should not respond to "tu", only to 'vous'!"

    --- So there are aspects of what-is-said (I don't use that phrase, though), what is explicitly communicated (I don't use that phrase either), the 'logical form' and the 'truth-conditions' of the utteratum that should be narrowly construed. This leaves free rein, as it were, to expand on other aspects, or as I used to prefer, 'shades of meaning', which are left unsaid, etc. -- and some, but then again some not, extend the truth-conditions.

    I would think that to challenge:

    "Tu as dit que la terre est plate"
    Thou hast said that the earth is flat.

    "Mais non!"
    "Did not!"

    The challenger wants us to correct to:

    "Vous avez dit que la terre est plate."
    "You [formal] have said that the earth is flat".

    While the picture in the world is whether the earth is flat or not, the social standing of utterer and addressee CAN become another picture of the world.

    "Tu as dit" thus expresses something that (B) regards as _false_. "B" is not within the scope of "Tu". The _true_ thing to say is "Vous avez dit". Never mind whether the earth is flat or not. Some people!

    Etc.

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  7. Finally, for some time (:)), I would like to add that this truth-base is just expository. I would go with Kramer, etc., that, to focus too much on 'true' or 'false' may be to fall victim of a 'descriptivist' fallacy, or even a 'naturalist' one. So I would be ready to accept levels of 'satisfactoriness' other than 'assertoric'.

    In which case, "Tu est belle" could be evaluated as being insatisfactory, prima facie, on grounds of 'incorrectness' at some level other than the alethic.

    I would go as far with Grice as to accept TWO levels (or dimensions, same level) of satisfactoriness. In which case, say,

    "Good morning"

    -- If interpreted as:

    "Have a good morning!" (no-one would but cfr. waiters, "Enjoy!") could be judged as to whether it is !-satisfactory, rather than .-satisfactory. Grice uses at this point the Frege double stroke for 'assertoric': "/-" which makes more justice to the subtlety of the issues: for the first "/" indicates 'judgement' (and an imperative is not a judging but a willing) while the "-" second stroke is the content-stroke (the phrastic) that imperatives and indicatives share.

    Since Grice ultimately does provide a proposal for the reduction of !-moves to .-moves, I would go as far as to claim that !-satisfactoriness is more basic (He never proposed a definition of willing in terms of belief, he just suggests there may be one, while he goes at great lengths -- in Gr91 -- to provide a complete definition in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions for 'believing' in terms of 'willing'.

    At the same time, he wants to elaborate on GENERAL claims that relate to BOTH assertoric (judicative) AND imperative (volitive) formulae, so that the priority or primacy of the second over the former would leave him, at the end of the morning, pretty cold, or with no bite on him. Or something. Etc.

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  8. No, I'll stick with "Good morning," because it involves a social interaction, and I specifically am seeking help in categorizing as metalinguistic vel non the social information implicit in the speaking, wishing, and diction of "Good morning."

    There may be metalinguistic (as I use the term) information in the choice of an utterance that has no logical form. You have to divine the logic of the message from the words and context. The lack of logical form in the utterance is a datum to be analyzed, not a criterion for rejection as an object of analysis. (Markham's Law: There is always a big enough circle.)

    Meanwhile, on conversational vs. conventionaly, I consulted the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and the thing is still clear as mud. But I did come across in the same article, at paragraph 7, a discussion of Sperber and Wilson's relevance theory, which looks an awful lot like my claims about "efficiency" being a possible replacement for "cooperativeness." My attempting to defend Relevance theory against your Grice is like bringing a picture of a knife to a gunfight, but I would be interested in any historical and analytical light you can shed on the polemic between those guys.

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  9. Sure: But before, because I cut it and have to paste now. It's amazing the Hermione Gingold and the Hermione Baddeley sang together on stage. And it wasn't the employer of Mary Poppins but the cook, as we see her chorusing, I think in:

    "Our daughters' daughters will adore us
    And they'll sign in grateful chorus
    "Well done! Well done!
    Well done Sister Suffragette!"

    To comment next, then. Thanks.

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  10. I will have to doublecheck Markham ref. --, and you are very right that one can focus on "Good morning". When I was doing my PhD I acquired many books (say,...) on the topic. I recall one I still sort of treasure. "Conversational routines", an expensive hardback -- which I had to import from the Netherlands. It's all about "good morning".

    ----- So I will try to extract as much logical form as I can.

    Again, I would follow Grice in considering only !- or .-moves. Recall these are "conversational maxims", for certain basic goals of communication. It seems like "Good morning" falls within what he would call "other maxims" that he (or I) would NOT call 'conversational'. It IS an artificial use, but seeing that so many people used and re-used, and ab-used Grice's ideas without caring to credit him, or caring to explore what Grice may have said on particular areas, I hope you'll understand me.

    I'm glad you consulted the conventional/conversational. As I recall, that entry is a precise of, what's his name, Davis book. Don't expect much Gricean enlightment on someone who, under contract with Cambridge U. Press, managed to write a book subtitled, "The failure of Grice"! I always blame OXFORD for that. She so much supersedes Cambridge that it's only expectable that a minor press, such as C. U. P. would publish the thing! Never Clarendon! The press for Grice! (When I say 'minor' I say in philosophy -- these where the "Studies in Philosophy", and I think 'failure' coming from a philosopher, is not a word people should use. Cfr. the elegance with which Grice deals with Mrs. Julie M. Jack in her horrendously called "The wrongs of Grice". People have no manners anymore?

    ---- The Category of Relatio (Quantitaet, Qualitaet, Relatio, Modus) was Grice's charming way to re-affirm a very Oxonian tradition. Some people, who knew Grice since then, and later in MIT, have used his ideas, in different ways. Some have lost their credentials as 'philosophers'. In that their views are NOT discussed by philosophers, on the whole (which I am). To me, as a historian of English PHILOSOPHY, there's historical interest to respect, and consideration for students of English philosophy. It was a breakthrough the way Grice dealt with the different categories, and he managed to do that with humour and charm and originality. There are more serious issues (or pseudo 'issues') with some post-Gricean or neo-Gricean considerations. Mentalism, for example. A big enemy, dualism, was for Grice. While people saw him as a 'behaviourist', even analytic behaviourist, he was NOT. And the Gricean picture comes along a whole philosophy of 'psychology' that some neo- or post-Griceans have just not respected or even considered seriously. As an integral philosopher (and historian of philosophy) I feel it my duty to do so. I will address your idea of Efficiency in a later post, or comment, if I may. Thanks.

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  11. Re: "Good morning" Kramer writes:

    it involves a social interaction, and I am seeking help in categorizing as "metalinguistic" (or not) the social information [IMPLICATED] on various fronts

    "speaking". Here I would refer to Austin's How to do things with words. His three sub-categories have made it to the OED:

    phonic act: /gud mornin/

    phatic act: sentence of the tacit type.

    rhetic act. He said, "Good morning".
    These three acts (he would multiply them without necessity) comprise the LOCUTION or locutionary act -- Austin 1955, WJ lectures at Harvard.

    (2) "wishing"
    Here I would refer to Grice's exhibitive vs. protreptic. "Good morning" is an exhibitive utterance as he calls it. It exhibits a DESIRE on the part of the utterer. Surely also a belief, implicit, that the Addressee thinks that it _IS_ morning, rather than night, etc.
    -- Protreptic utterances become so BY being exhibitive, so exhibitive is more basic. Protreptic utterance is one which AIMS at instilling a belief/desire in addressee rather than at exhibiting the utterer's own ("Trespassers shall be prosecuted" +> Do not trespass).

    Kramer:

    There may be "information" in the choice of an utterance that has no logical form

    That would be analogical, I suppose. I still believe that whatever 'information', of the type that a philosopher like Grice may be interested in recovering can be digitalised in the form of "Utterer believes that ...". And that follows a 'that'-clause SEEMS to require a logical form. If I say, "supercallifrag", I cannot mean THAT supercalifrag. At most I can mean that something IS suupercallifrag. Similarly if a Tongan lady says "Tongantongantongan yes", one cannot or shouldn't just say, she means that yes (Strictly, perhaps one can: since, 'that' is a demonstrative -- He said that: Good morning. So one may have to be careful there). In any case, there seems to be MORE to what a philosopher understands by a 'that'-clause than the history of English allows. What Grice means is a "propositional complex". We believe 'propositonal complexes': that p, that q, that if p, q, that p or q, that not-p, that p and q, etc.

    Kramer:

    "You have to divine the logic of the message from the words and context. The lack of logical form in the utterance is a datum to be analyzed, not a criterion for rejection as an object of analysis. (Markham's Law: There is always a big enough circle.)

    Point taken. Right. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, then. Indeed Zipf once challenged Grice with 'bubugloo gloo gloo buu", an utterance which means something quite specific in an Amerindian language but by which the utterer was meant to have meant, "I've become a lunatic" -- he was looking for early retirement. The apocryphal Grice went, "If you can't put it in symbols, it's not worth saying". With Strawson replying, "If you CAN put it in symbols, it's not worth saying", or something. Looked like a nonsequitur to me. Atlas has examined some of the problems with "logical form". While not really a philosopher -- he teaches Ling AND philo -- (I love him) do not expect a Gricean (purely philosophical) sort of analysis -- Atlas's Oxon connection with Wolfson helped. Etc.

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  12. I realise I have not, really, answered Kramer's point as to what is "metalinguistic vel non" as he charmingly puts it (it _is_ a good practice to stick to Latin to avoid 'unwanted' "implicatures", or not), re: "Good morning".

    Linguistic, since this is the medium, in this case, for this 'utterance', seems to be most about it. Eye-signalling, para-linguistic, proxemic, etc. we may add too, and we would NOT call that _meta_-linguistic.

    So what would BE 'meta-linguistic'? Well, I would think that in order to HAVE 'metalinguistic' we need to be desiring to talk about 'Good morning'. Since we may not, nothing MAY be metalinguistic.

    The Gricean programme projects along other lines. It would go to suggest:

    --- utterer's meaning (meaning-that). The utterer of "Good morning" (a token of a type, if you must) meant that the addressee was to have a good morning. Grice is pretty careful in 'that'-expansions for moves which are not just assertoric. "that the addressee is to have a good morning" is different from "that the addressee IS having a good morning," there.

    --- IMPLICATA: these would BE part of what the utterer means. Usually, they involve intentions of 'long-distance' as it were. We are not involved with short-circuit implicatures, but with long-circuited ones. There are intentions that constitute the meaning ('that A should have a good morning') -- further dimensions of further intentions on the part of the utterer should count as IMPLICATA (e.g. "I exist", "I perceive you there", "I hope you reciprocate", "I need to open the conversation", "It's rude for me to keep silent while I see you passing by the door", etc.)

    --- As a linguist, one may be interested (I'm usually not) into _why_ "Good morning" came to indicate all that. "Morn" is such a complex noun. I never understood the adding of -ing. And good is pretty vacuous -- and in any case it would be a more generous 'meaning' that the Utterer would wish that the addressee would have a morning that the _addressee_ judges as good, but I'm not sure if this implicatum is ceteris-paribus communicated. From what I've seen, the phrase is taken to mean that the utterer desires that the addressee will have a morning that the _utterer_ judges as good. Etc.

    So, nothing 'metalinguistic' there. It may become metalinguistic stuff if one challenges it:

    A: Good morning
    B: Good morning

    But more of this in next post, right now.

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  13. A: Good morning
    B: Nothing good about it.

    B purposely misunderstands A -- vide my "Conversational uptake and how to fail it".

    A: Good morning
    B: Noon. It's 12.

    -- correction. Based on the impossibilty of wishing something impossible.

    A: Good morning
    B: Noon. It's 12:01.
    A: I was referring to _next_ morning
    B: F*ck off.

    ---

    A: Good morning
    B: Your accent sucks.

    --- Metalinguistic comment? Prosodic, accentual, stress?

    --

    A: Good morning
    B: _Very_ good morning.

    Correction. Purposeful misunderstanding.

    ---

    This is beginning to sound like Al Jaffee (was it?) in "Mad", Snappy Answers, only there's nothing "stupid" about "Good morning". But it strikes me that unless you challenge it someway the meta-lingusitic aspect may not become evident. --

    Strictly, 'meta-linguistic' would be any comment referring to what I think Kramer has as the 'diction', and Grice as the 'dictiveness' -- in the case of Grice, as it relates to dict-, in Latin, cognate with Greek, deik-, and thus 'signalling'.

    --

    A: Good morning
    B: Your 'good morning' makes my morning.

    -- This would be, drearily, 'metalinguistic'.

    A: Good morning.
    B: Good morning.

    --- It seems the safest is to reciprocate. But "And to you" does not seem to do it.

    A: Good morning.
    B: What d'you mean?

    -- That _could_ be 'metalinguistic', but I wouldn't call it thus.

    And there may be more options. Later.

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