-- by JLS
---- for the GC
---- JASON K. WAS WONDERING about my attribution of "The Truth" to him, and wondered if it was the 'it' of "it rains". No. Rather to his reference to "Poe, was it?" -- i.e. Poe was an "it" -- implicatum. :). (Under, appropriately, "Iberian Grice") and this comment in "Art in the Grice College" or something. Jason brilliantly writes:
NOt all clubs [etc. 'The Grice Club'. JLS]
are as misguided as to interpose themselves
between the obscured informational load of
the text and its revelation without
having the law to compel people into their arms.
Actually, that would not be (but then why would it be a bad idea.
He continues, and note above the interesting link between "The Revealed Truth" and Style -- I use this header because it was the title of a book project by the club-founder (sort of): Grice.
Academics of the sort I was surrounded with
Sorry, but I have to disclose them. They will love your remembrance:
[add name ot those two scholars, eventually and incidentally. -- the 'add' is a self-reminder, to me, JL].
are, finally, participating in their own continued marginalisation, which seems small recompense for the frissons that visit them during an 'unpacking' of a particular Butler or, another prose fiasco, Fredric Jameson.
Exactly, what they SHOULD do (seeing it's a college of arts, and I've seen PHILOSOPHERS Doing it) is use visual media. As Jason notes, LaButler does speak 'normally'. I will have to find about Jameson. If he manages to _elocute_ the airless passages he must have a good lung capacity. Apparently the Chinesemen love Jameson and there is a photo of a caricature of a Chinese caricature of Jameson in the wiki entry for Jameson.
But what do you mean by that precieux 'frissons'? Surely it wasn't _you_ opposing the grand revealed truths of the Masters and Mistresses, right?
Jason continues now more on a strict Gricean key:
There is also how this approach
of encoding a message so that only a
small group can decode it, how this fits
with the Gricean maxims and does
this reveal how the CP invokes
(always? in extreme cases?) its
darkside of an Uncooperative Principle
with regards to 'everybody the
message is not intended for'.
Yes, there's something of it. But recall that Grice kept the ties of his cricket club (that he would use as suspenders in Berkeley) and would often get offended when people (usually rude students) stared at them and misdescribed them as 'pieces of string'.
The 'raison d'etre' of a cricket club is to EXCLUDE all those who are not members of it (i.e. the cricket club).
I think this Relates, as Kramer sees it, to Victor Borge's dance --.
The odd paradox of 'exclusion' -- my favourite is the advertisement for Polo Ralph Lauren -- is that 'we exclude by including'. Or we include by excluding. I.e. there is the prestige in the exclusion but there's no real exclusion unless you include. The maximal Gricean author of them all expressed it most clearly and sans implicature, when he (Yogi Berra) said:
"That restaurant is always so full that nodoby goes there anymore"
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"and its revelation"
ReplyDeleteNow I see. Well, this is not something I would call 'truth', unless 'truth' is a suitable term to describe the intention of the speaker/writer, something far less grand.
And if I did describe it thus... etc
ReplyDeleteI have to add this from the blurb for Jameson, from that wag Zizek (can't do the orthography) - "Every now and then a book appears which is literally ahead of its time: only decades later it becomes fully readable..."
ReplyDeleteWe must wait!
That is soo good. It reminds me (not because it's specially memorable but because I just came across when doing Roy B (can't do the orthography) for "Plato, etc", this blog:
ReplyDeleteDutton comments about the below:
"It’s a splendid bit of prose and I’m certain many of us will now attempt to read it aloud without taking a breath. The jacket blurb, incidentally, informs us that this is the author’s “most accessible book to date.”
Roy B.:
Indeed dialectical critical realism may be seen under the aspect of Foucauldian strategic reversal — of the unholy trinity of Parmenidean/Platonic/Aristotelean provenance; of the Cartesian-Lockean-Humean-Kantian paradigm, of foundationalisms (in practice, fideistic foundationalisms) and irrationalisms (in practice, capricious exercises of the will-to-power or some other ideologically and/or psycho-somatically buried source) new and old alike; of the primordial failing of western philosophy, ontological monovalence, and its close ally, the epistemic fallacy with its ontic dual; of the analytic problematic laid down by Plato, which Hegel served only to replicate in his actualist monovalent analytic reinstatement in transfigurative reconciling dialectical connection, while in his hubristic claims for absolute idealism he inaugurated the Comtean, Kierkegaardian and Nietzschean eclipses of reason, replicating the fundaments of positivism through its transmutation route to the superidealism of a Baudrillard.
You are right, Jason. "Truth" is too grand a thing. "Intention" should do, or "Authorial intention" if you must -- vide above. (Or something).
Oddly Grice has the maxim,
"Try to make your contribution one that is true"
-- but of course there is a distinction (to be made, rather than to unmake), surely, between the taming of the true -- _and_ Truth. Etc.
Truth as accuracy, with regard to the correspondence between intention and the words proffered.
ReplyDeleteOn that score, I wonder if it is really fair, for instance, to put quotation marks around 'something Nietzsche said' when the words are rendered in English. Clearly, Nietzsche *never* said that/wrote that. Then again, I do find it a chore when reading Arendt, and there are Latin, Greek and French quotations with no translation of them. Even worse is when the footnotes indicate some obscure pun, locking me out twice from the charming game in progress.
Then again, I was born into that wretched Spark Brook slum, and shouldn't be reading Arendt anyway. "Pass me my Beano, dad..."
I had a story published this year in simplified Chinese, the Communists love me, you know. Well, I am unable to read a word (there aren't even words) of it, so what my reaction would be to somebody 'quoting' me, and proceeding to reel off a stream of Mandarin...
You are very right about Nietzsche never saying so. Perhaps it's revenge, though. After all, his claim to fame is "Also sprach Zarathustra" but he (s.c. Zarathustra) never said it, either.
ReplyDeleteoh. kuru? maybe prosopagnosia? maybe not anything to follow the Roy rules:
ReplyDelete.8977 Roy Bhaskar again:
Indeed dialectical critical realism may be seen under the aspect of
1] Foucauldian strategic reversal — of the unholy trinity of Parmenidean/Platonic/Aristotelean provenance; of the Cartesian-Lockean-Humean-Kantian paradigm,
2] of foundationalisms (in practice, fideistic foundationalisms)
3] and irrationalisms (in practice, capricious exercises of the will-to-power or some other ideologically and/or psycho-somatically buried source) new and old alike;
4] of the primordial failing of western philosophy, ontological monovalence, and its close ally, the epistemic fallacy with its ontic dual;
5] of the analytic problematic laid down by Plato, which Hegel served only to replicate in his actualist monovalent analytic reinstatement in transfigurative reconciling dialectical connection,
6] while in his hubristic claims for absolute idealism he inaugurated the Comtean, Kierkegaardian and Nietzschean eclipses of reason,
7] replicating the fundaments of positivism through its transmutation route to the superidealism of a Baudrillard.
[Kuru: the trembling disease; New Guinea and ? has a 30 year onset delay for some]
Yes, Roy (as I call him friendily) B. is a natural one. When people say, "He is a natural", is the implicatum always bad?
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't Nietzsche, but Poe, Kennedy surmises, who said, "a mystic has problems communicating the profundity of his truth", or something.
Perhaps Dutton stopped the contest because it had become boring on three counts:
-- 1) It was promoting the 'bad'. With all the irony, instead of focusing on things that mattered, Dutton was wasting his time in otiosities (criticising others' writing) rather than focusing on his own. He is now a published author -- of "Art and evolution", which I have reviewed elsewhere -- actually at CLASSICS-L).
2) Other
3) These authors -- like Roy B -- ARE students. Dutton says, "SOME role models for a student of English!" But these books by academic usually spring from PhD dissertations submitted verbatim -- and without having to TYPE the monstrosity again -- to a press. Etc.