Not Fun Anymore

---- By JLS
--------- for the GC

--- I WAS GOING TO TITLE THIS "Funny senses" -- but senses are seldom funny. I appreciate Kramer's reporting (under "Modified Occam's razor" thread),

From "Goodfellas."

"Henry Hill (Ray Liotta) is a young mafioso. Tommy Vito (Joe Pesci) is a highly volatile and violent more senior thug."

Henry Hill: You're a pistol, you're really funny. You're really funny.

Tommy DeVito: What do you mean I'm funny?

Henry Hill: It's funny, you know. It's a good story, it's funny, you're a funny guy.
[laughs]

Tommy DeVito: What do you mean, you mean the way I talk? What?

Henry Hill: It's just, you know. You're just funny, it's... funny, the way you tell the story and everything.

Tommy DeVito: [it becomes quiet] Funny how? What's funny about it?

Anthony Stabile: Tommy no, You got it all wrong.

Tommy DeVito: Oh, oh, Anthony. He's a big boy, he knows what he said. What did ya say? Funny how?

Henry Hill: Jus...

Tommy DeVito: What?

Henry Hill: Just... ya know... you're funny.

Tommy DeVito: You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

Henry Hill: Just... you know, how you tell the story, what?

Tommy DeVito: No, no, I don't know, you said it. How do I know? You said I'm funny. How the fuck am I funny, what the fuck is so funny about me? Tell me, tell me what's funny!

Henry Hill: [long pause] Get the fuck out of here, Tommy!

Tommy DeVito: [everyone laughs] Ya motherfucker! I almost had him, I almost had him. Ya stuttering prick ya. Frankie, was he shaking? I wonder about you sometimes, Henry. You may fold under questioning.

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I thought I'd bring that to the forum for further discussion -- etc.

I love those ethnomethodological accounts to Grice by people who we don't suppose have read Grice in the original (Tommy DeVito). Similarly, I was amused to check that Horn credits me ("gratia Speranzae" he writes, or words) re This example from film by Dennis Potter with Robert Downey Jr. -- (My mother likes Dennis Potter more than I do: The singing detective:

A. "Who have you slept with recently?"

B. "Myself, mostly, nowadays"

A. "Mostly?"

(pause)

A. "Mostly" means "not always".

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The example is so complicated, that it's good that Horn distributes it, because we need a PhD on Potter one day --. I once corresponded with a fellow of Bradford who actually did just that. I should retrieve our stuff for the Club at some stage.

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Now, the 'no fun anymore' is of course Python's line, right?

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(I can't find the sketch if it was one).

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But seriously.

I think DeVitto is possibly justified in his query.

Let's check the etymology briefly:

From this online source:

fun. 1680s, v., "to cheat, hoax," probably a variant of M.E. "fon", "befool" (c.1400), later "trick, hoax, practical joke," of uncertain origin."

Typical. You pay the lot, and they come up with 'of uncertain origin'. What IS of certain origin? (cfr. "Unglorious Basterds").

---- The least thing they could do, at the dictionary, is to surmise. Can't they find out, or have any suspicion, as to why out of nowhere, the Middle English started to use 'fon' to mean a 'zany'?

The source goes on:

"Stigmatized by Johnson as "a low cant word.""

And stigmatised by Kant, too.

"Older sense is preserved in phrase to make fun of and funny money "counterfeit bills" (1938, though this may be more for the sake of the rhyme); sense of "amusement" is 1727. See also funny."

So, DeVitto is right. Because Hill is using the word as to mean something relatively new ('sense of amusement,' this silly dico reads, 1727).

So, it just happened that in April's Fool Day for 1727, some idiot said,

"Hey, funny!"

---- Since THEN, people have started to generalise. They followed suit. The new 'sense' stuck.

They say, "See also funny". Please. I dislike to be ordered like that. And why would I "see" 'funny'? Surely it's a formation out of 'fun', so whatever 'funny' means is what 'fun' means, with a vengeance. Plus, if I were to 'see' 'funny', why are they making the reference to 'funny money' (a silly rhyme if there ever was an intelligent one) HERE, rather than where it SHOULD be, i.e. under 'funny'?

Etc.

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"Peculiar" is perhaps not funny, either. I should find out who was the first to collocate 'funny-peculiar' like that. Harper's Magazine, I expect. "Funny ha ha" CAN be funny because 'ha ha' is often fake. It has to be 'ha ha', rather than 'funny ha' -- so the 'ha' has nothing to do with it --. What originated as a symptom of natural meaning (in Grice's 'sense') -- Ha! -- it has fossilied, "Ha Ha".

In a way, it's like the "Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühen". It's all about, as Grice notes, 'gesticulation and chest thumping and so forth'. What we are coming to.