Speranza, in various posts:
"Vide my posts elsewhere and this blog..."
"Well, not really, but when Jeff Huggins (I love the man) elsewhere started to lecture me on what works works..."
"I'm reminded of a post by T. W. elsewhere to the effect that Grice's lectures at Harvard were _nine_"
"I distributed this quote by Grice elsewhere which merited a reprimand!"
Mysterious but understandable. There are so many elsewheres.
That reminds me, some time after Speranza stopped posting to one of the elsewheres, I wondered what he and Grice might make of a certain style of gangster telephone talk popularized (I think) by Jimmy Breslin:
"Meet you right where we was the last time," Kid Sally said. "You mean the place where that guy—" "No, not that place. The other place," Kid Sally said. ...
(from The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight, 1969)
Here the Maxim of Quantity is being violated from the point of view of the guy who is tapping the telephone line, but not from the point of view of the intended addressee, Kid Sally's co-conspirator.
This would be no different from teenage texting, or old married couples who understand each other's grunts and sighs, were it not for the fact that the eavesdropper is, in a way, the intended *non-addressee*.
Just testing to see if I can post. But JL, thought you might like it.
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I do, but I´m not sure I understand it. Tapper quotes from J. Breslin, 1969, The Gang That Couldn´t Shoot Straight, "a style of ganster telephone talk":
ReplyDeleteUtterer: Kid Sally:
"(I will) Meet you (, Addressee) right where we was the last time."
Addressee:
"You mean(NN) the place where
that guy
(Was Killed).
Utterer:
"No, not that place (where that guy was killed)."
"The *other* place".
Tapper comments: "(It would seem to me that) Grice´s "Maxim of Quantity""
Which of them? There are two sub-maxims here. I do not think he posed one supra-maxim did he? (Sorry to be a pendant (sic) but it is early).
"is being violated from the point of view of the guy who is tapping the telephone line, but not from the point of view of the intended addressee, Kid Sally's co-conspirator."
Right. I don´t think tappers should count, right? (I don´t mean "T" Tappers with a capital).
Tapper, wanting to generalise philosophically adds:
"This would be no different from teenage texting".
Are they tapped, too?
"or old married couples who understand each other's grunts and sighs"
right. I wrote something about this in "The Grice/Strawson (Telephone) Conversations, Unwritten", this blog.
"were it not for the fact that the eavesdropper is, in a way, the intended *non-addressee*"
I see. Gangstery indeed. I will have to elaborate on this.
A lot of Shakespeare sounds to me like that. I mean, I cannot stand those, usually harlequins, and stuff, talking to each other as if they mean it, when it´s all meant to be displayed to US, the "unintended eavesdroppers", as it were.
Etc.
Unintended third parties.
ReplyDeleteGrice speaks of concerted talk such as conversation. They are meant between
U
and
A
Alternating places. I.e. U becoming A, and A becoming U. One move at a time. One move, one turn. He thought this would be fun (as he lectured on this in 1966 in Oxford). "Silly and theoretical, perhaps, but hey frictionless solids are too".
Third parties are NOT allowed. Tappers with a lowercase T are NOT allowed.
Etc.
PS. I wonder if the "the OTHER place" needs to be understood in terms of U´s "realising" there´s a third (intended non-addressee) third party. Levinson considers:
ReplyDeleteWife: What shall we have for desert?
(Kid witnessing)
Hubby: I veto I, See, E, See, Er, Ay, Em.
In this case, the fact that kid is witnessing is the key role in U not abiding by "be perspicuous".
With "the other place" I´m not sure? Or consider a note Yoko Ono reprints in her "Grape-fruit".
"Tom,
Do come to the exhibit. It´s on Chappel
Gallery. You take the two first blocks
to the right, and go straight to the
left at the alley and cross to the right,
five more blocks and then to the left,
across to the next alley to the right,
and cross to the right, where you´ll see
the entrance to the gallery."
"PS. Sorry I wrote the indications
from _my_ point of view. Provide the
necessary alterations, and see you there!"
Or words*.
(*) Larry J. Kramer complains, elsewhere ("Naturalism without tears") that "or words to that perlocutionary effect" is redundant, in that most effects of words _are_ perlocutionary. He made me realise that perhaps, "to that effect" is also redundant, hence I´m cutting the thing short.
From an online source: it provides specific dates. It strikes me as interesting that "elsewho" was only first used and only for a decade in 1540. And who else but "James McShyder"?
ReplyDelete"O.E. elles hwær (see else + where). It survived, but elsewhen (early 15c.), elsewhat (O.E.), elsewho (1540s) did not."
For the record. And I'm pleased Tapper cares to quote me _au pied de la lettre_:
ReplyDeleteI wrote:
"Vide my posts elsewhere and this blog..."
-- exactly. Elsewhere _where_? Out in cyberspace? Usually I contribute or contributed to some specific fora: Phil-Lit, Lit-Ideas, Chora, Analytic-Philosophy, Bayne's site, etc.
I wrote:
"Well, not really, but when Jeff Huggins (I love the man) elsewhere started to lecture me on what works works..."
Well, he is a regular at CHORA, the forum instituted by S. Clark for us to play. They are archived at liverpool.ac.uk. Huggins is fun. He has a website. He lives in Los Gatos, which is a lovely place not far from Griceland (Berkeley).
I wrote:
"I'm reminded of a post by T. W. elsewhere to the effect that Grice's lectures at Harvard were _nine_"
Yes, T. W. has now a book out, "Pragmatics and non-verbal communication". His work on exegetical Grice where he deals with Arundale and other tidbits I proposed elsewhere are in "Working Papers" --.
I wrote:
"I distributed this quote by Grice elsewhere which merited a reprimand!"
-- I think the reprimand was by R. B. Jones, in the Bayne site. My quote was to the effect that Grice called Carnap a "redneck" (of Vienna, to be sure). Jones wrote words to the effect that he was not expecting such a vulgarity from a Staffs-born Oxonian and that.
Etc.